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Thumbnails Revisited (Mac, IFF Snooper)
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Yersinia
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 10:52 pm    Post subject: Thumbnails Revisited (Mac, IFF Snooper) Reply with quote

Prior to opening this post, I read the recent Thumbnails thread started not too long ago by DamonDamore in the hopes that it would help me with my little dilemma here. It did a little bit, but not completely (my problem is a little different than Damon's) -- so I'm bringing it back.

The thread I'm referring to is here:

http://simblesseoblige.com/viewtopic.php?t=4092

OK, here's my problem. I just made two new hybrid handwash only bathroom sinks for my Akaren sims via graphics swap (Lost Sims no-dishwashing sink as the base with graphics from two very nicely exotic Parsimonious sinks). They looked nice in the testing game, and they work -- but there's a thumbnail problem, even though I deleted all the base sink's BMPs, then put in all the BMPs from the Parsimonious sinks. Specifically, in Buy Mode, they show a game sink in the catalog, and, when the test sim used them, the queue icon for that was the same game sink as I saw in the catalog. This is true for both of my new sinks.

In the above referenced thread, there was a link to a post by mtaman describing how to streamline/reduce the file size of objects by removing excess thumbnails (http://simblesseoblige.com/viewtopic.php?t=2829). While I'm not looking to streamline, I found this post helpful in that it stressed that the important BMP to keep was the one whose number matched the number in CTSS. So I looked at my sinks' CTSS and BMP numbers. Lo and behold, I found they didn't match. That is, in CTSS for both, the number was 2000, but the numbers of the thumbnail BMPs I want displayed in the catalog and in the sims' queues when they use them are 2001 and 2002, respectively.

I then found I couldn't edit the CTSS number of the first sink to be 2001 (to match the BMP of the actual sink) -- it's greyed out and therefore uneditable, so I didn't try that with the second. And, here I am.

See screenshots from the first sink for exact illustration of what I saw. And, can anyone tell me what to do to make the desired thumbnails appear in the catalog and in sims' queues?

Thanks!

~Yersinia.



CTSS Says.JPG
 Description:

Download
 Filename:  CTSS Says.JPG
 Filesize:  299.31 KB
 Downloaded:  194 Time(s)


BMP Says.JPG
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Download
 Filename:  BMP Says.JPG
 Filesize:  267.44 KB
 Downloaded:  195 Time(s)


I Want BMP 2001.jpg
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 Filename:  I Want BMP 2001.jpg
 Filesize:  267.96 KB
 Downloaded:  216 Time(s)


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Raeven
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 19, 2008 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can delete all of the BMP_ resources so the object will display properly in your game (unless any have special numbers as Peter pointed out. Those are used by something other than the buymode catalog)

Mtaman stressed the importance of not deleting the thumbnails that match the CTSS number because those are the proper thumbnails for an object. They are ones an object maker purposely put in. These are used by the game but they are not needed by the game. They are, however, needed by third party programs such as the PC program Sim Categorizer. I do not know how IffSnooper handles missing thumbnails but Melissa never complained about a problem so I don't think it crashes the program or anything. Even the PC programs wont crash they simply have no picture to display and players need to identify the object by filename alone.

At SSoW I'm not even a little bit concerned with 3rd party programs (which annoys a lotta people but none of had the nerve to call me "lazy" to my face about it). I do, however, end up with thumbnails in a lot of objects because when I test them in my No-EPs-Installed version of the game that version makes thumbanils for me. I also end up with thumbnails in some objects because I make them from scratch so they can be identified at a glance. If, for example, I use Maxis graphics I'll put the SSoW background int he thumbnail so you can tell the Maxis one from the Hacked one by glancing at the catalog. Another background is used for Apartment Hacked items that share a graphic with a "normal" version. othe than that I figure anyone who finds them important wont mind beingthe one t take the few minutes it takes to make them (wont take them longer than it takes me, after all)

--- FIXING YOUR PROBLEM ---
If you really wan tot fix your problem rather than delete all thumbnails here's how.

1) Look at the CTSS id number in the parsimonious sink and take note of it's number.
2) Now look in your sink and note it's CTSS
3) Look at the BMP_ s you imported and see if an BMP_ matches that number. Chances are no since after Kate does not design her objects for 3rd party programs. The Game does not need them so she does not spend energy on them. Instead she moves on tot he next creation.
4) If, somehow, it's there, then renumber that BMP_ to match your CTSS.

Personally I'd delete all of the BMP_ resources altogether, if IffSnooper does not balk.

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Yersinia
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raeven wrote:
You can delete all of the BMP_ resources so the object will display properly in your game (unless any have special numbers as Peter pointed out. Those are used by something other than the buymode catalog)

Mtaman stressed the importance of not deleting the thumbnails that match the CTSS number because those are the proper thumbnails for an object. They are ones an object maker purposely put in. These are used by the game but they are not needed by the game.


Well maybe I only partially understand this, but it seems to me (at this point) a bad idea to delete BMP_ resources because, well, in addition to the catalog description, aren't the thumbnails needed by the game to display the catalog click picture (which brings up the description), and in the queues of sims when you tell them to, or, they choose to use it? See new screenshots.

Quote:
They are, however, needed by third party programs such as the PC program Sim Categorizer. I do not know how IffSnooper handles missing thumbnails but Melissa never complained about a problem so I don't think it crashes the program or anything. Even the PC programs wont crash they simply have no picture to display and players need to identify the object by filename alone.


I actually use the DGRP screen to get a visual on an object when the filename alone isn't enough for me to identify it. Even prior to learning last week how to view the full object from the DGRP screen, the "discombobulated bits and pieces" were enough to tell me what the object was. That's how I got through those monster culls this time last year! As to the 3rd party program Sim Categorizer, there's no Mac version or equivalent, so...for me personally it's inconsequential.

Quote:
At SSoW I'm not even a little bit concerned with 3rd party programs (which annoys a lotta people but none of had the nerve to call me "lazy" to my face about it). I do, however, end up with thumbnails in a lot of objects because when I test them in my No-EPs-Installed version of the game that version makes thumbanils for me. I also end up with thumbnails in some objects because I make them from scratch so they can be identified at a glance. If, for example, I use Maxis graphics I'll put the SSoW background int he thumbnail so you can tell the Maxis one from the Hacked one by glancing at the catalog. Another background is used for Apartment Hacked items that share a graphic with a "normal" version. othe than that I figure anyone who finds them important wont mind beingthe one t take the few minutes it takes to make them (wont take them longer than it takes me, after all)


I just change the descriptions on mine, that's how I can tell them from Maxis ones and the original version of the object as I had downloaded it.

--- FIXING YOUR PROBLEM ---
If you really wan tot fix your problem rather than delete all thumbnails here's how.

1) Look at the CTSS id number in the parsimonious sink and take note of it's number.
2) Now look in your sink and note it's CTSS
3) Look at the BMP_ s you imported and see if an BMP_ matches that number. Chances are no since after Kate does not design her objects for 3rd party programs. The Game does not need them so she does not spend energy on them. Instead she moves on tot he next creation.
4) If, somehow, it's there, then renumber that BMP_ to match your CTSS.

Personally I'd delete all of the BMP_ resources altogether, if IffSnooper does not balk.[/quote]

I tried your four step fix, and it helped, but didn't totally fix it. I'm still getting a game sink in Buy Mode (though the "real" one is appearing inside the actual description, which it didn't do before I tried this), and, when I test played it, the game sink still appeafs in the test sims' queues. I'm reluctant to delete the BMP_resources outright because, though I admit in my beginner-hood with this sort of thing I may be wrong, but I just very strongly feel that if I delete them all, I won't have any thumbnails at all. And no, I don't know how to make thumbnails, and I'm not sure I want to have to learn at this point (I'm probably not equipped either).

Here's the screenshots of the two sinks in their present condition. Any more suggestions?

Thanks so much, as always!

~Yersinia.



Buy Mode Sink 1.jpg
 Description:

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 Filename:  Buy Mode Sink 1.jpg
 Filesize:  404.55 KB
 Downloaded:  222 Time(s)


Buy Mode Sink 2.jpg
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 Filename:  Buy Mode Sink 2.jpg
 Filesize:  404.12 KB
 Downloaded:  182 Time(s)


In Use.jpg
 Description:
See that game sink in the queue? (upper left)

Download
 Filename:  In Use.jpg
 Filesize:  347.46 KB
 Downloaded:  194 Time(s)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 3:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you would like, PM them to me and I'll run them thru my Base sims game which will make the thumbnails for you. It's no problem and would only take a minute.


The game should generate the thumbnails that you see in Buy mode from the sprites unless you have put in a thumbnail yourself(or rather the creator did).
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops Uh-oh.

mtaman, I just tried to PM you the sinks, but the SO board attachment system doesn't allow .iff files, so I'll have to email them to you instead. They'll be out to you within the next five minutes or so -- watch your email!

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay. thumbsup

The PM system does allow zip files.

I have a meeting in a few minutes but I should have them ready in a hour or so depending on how long the meeting runs.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtaman wrote:
Okay. thumbsup

The PM system does allow zip files.

I have a meeting in a few minutes but I should have them ready in a hour or so depending on how long the meeting runs.


Not a problem, of course -- when you get a chance is fine with me!

I just sent the email with the two sinks as .iff files. Yeah, I know the PM system lets us send zips, but remember, you had problems in the past with my zips -- somehow they got .hqx'ed? I can't explain why that happened, but I did remember the problem, and of course you couldn't open them. That was why I tried to PM you the .iffs, only the board didn't like it!

Catch you later and thanks again!

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always delete all the bmp's in every .iff, except when there are some that are not in the 2000/4000/6000 series.

Sometimes I will disasemble/remove bmps/reassemble - which I *think* is the only way to do this in IffSnooper.
When there isn't a matching one, or when I have a lot of objects that I want to take the excess bmps out of, I will sometimes use 'clear all' and just get rid of all the bmps. Much faster, if not as tidy. :)

Quote:
Well maybe I only partially understand this, but it seems to me (at this point) a bad idea to delete BMP_ resources because, well, in addition to the catalog description, aren't the thumbnails needed by the game to display the catalog click picture (which brings up the description), and in the queues of sims when you tell them to, or, they choose to use it? See new screenshots.


About half of my objects have no bmp resources at all, and they display properly in the catalog and in the queues.
The game just generates its own thumbnail when it needs it.

Karin
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Yersinia
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KarinL wrote:
I always delete all the bmp's in every .iff, except when there are some that are not in the 2000/4000/6000 series.

Sometimes I will disasemble/remove bmps/reassemble - which I *think* is the only way to do this in IffSnooper.
When there isn't a matching one, or when I have a lot of objects that I want to take the excess bmps out of, I will sometimes use 'clear all' and just get rid of all the bmps. Much faster, if not as tidy. :)

Quote:
Well maybe I only partially understand this, but it seems to me (at this point) a bad idea to delete BMP_ resources because, well, in addition to the catalog description, aren't the thumbnails needed by the game to display the catalog click picture (which brings up the description), and in the queues of sims when you tell them to, or, they choose to use it? See new screenshots.


About half of my objects have no bmp resources at all, and they display properly in the catalog and in the queues.
The game just generates its own thumbnail when it needs it.


Hmmmmmm...well, I'll keep this in mind if I run into this issue again, then. This was the first time I had a thumbnail "problem" with an object I made by graphics swapping. Yes, disassemble-delete all BMP_ resources-reassemble -- or "clear all" within the BMP tab in Snooper -- is how to get rid of the works, but I was reluctant to do this. If there's a next time, I'll try it then and see what happens.

In the meanwhile, my sinks, thanks to mtaman's help, are now fully operational and installed in my real game. I just finished off Leiah and Talihl's bathing tent, and am ready to start the next one, which I'll be giving to Nemekh and his cousin Hanahv. (You should remember Hanahv; he was one of the Servants of Vashaleth from the Move-in challenge at Madoria's!).

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yersinia, I promise I'd not recommend deleting them if the game needed them.
I solemnly swear on my reputation as a hacker.
As Karin says anything out of the 2000, 4000 and 6000 range you will want to leave alone but within those ranges it's just bloat.

Here's the skinny (with some details missing but the Gist is sound, i swear it)

The buymode catalog and action queue and Inventory window use the 2000 series BMP_ if one is available. If it is missing then the game generates one to use by taking a little picture of the actual object. Originally (befor expansuion packs) the game then saved the object with that thumbnail in it. That's what Mtaman is offering to do for you now. He will be stripping the object of thumbnails and running his NoEP version of the game, opening buymode to have the the game make a thumbnail and sending the file back to you. So ... the game CAN run without the thumbnail or he'd crash doing that.

Games with expansion packs installed, however, do not save the thumbnails in the objects. so after playing it is still thumbnail-less.

Speech bubbles (and dream) use the 4000 and 6000 series BMP_ if those are available. If they are not available the game generates them to use. Same as above except if Mtaman wants to make those for you he'd have to buy the object, place it down and get the Sims to come look at it (What's This?) or talk about it for some reason. This can only be done wiht objects that wont crash an NoEP game, of course and since 3rd party programs don't use these thumbnails that's usually considered unimportant.

The picture you see next to the buymode description is not a thumbnail at all but one of the Far/Small views of the object itself I forget which rotation off hand but you'll notice on objects that have flaws in the far views those flaws will show up in that image as well. As I mentioned earlier I put custom thumbnails with SSoW's leafy background in them and you wont see that background at all next to the buymode description

Icons of an object in a dialog box (pop-up window) also use a far/small zoom rather than a thumbnail.

Peter's mentioned other uses for custom thumbnails in the 5000 range and there's no known use for other numbers but before he said that I knew of no known use for the 5000 series so to be on the safe side I, like Karin, would leave anything but 2000, 4000, and 6000 alone.

Since you do not need those thumbnails for third party programs you don't need them at all.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yersinia wrote:
Yeah, I know the PM system lets us send zips, but remember, you had problems in the past with my zips -- somehow they got .hqx'ed? I can't explain why that happened, but I did remember the problem, and of course you couldn't open them. That was why I tried to PM you the .iffs, only the board didn't like it!

Catch you later and thanks again!

~Yersinia.


These arrived .hqx'ed as well, but earlier I had downloaded a trial of Stuffit which was able to expand them. whistle thumbsup

You are quite welcome. biggrin
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raeven wrote:
Yersinia, I promise I'd not recommend deleting them if the game needed them.
I solemnly swear on my reputation as a hacker.
As Karin says anything out of the 2000, 4000 and 6000 range you will want to leave alone but within those ranges it's just bloat.

Here's the skinny (with some details missing but the Gist is sound, i swear it)


I deleted most of the information on the BMP_ resources/thumbnail issue from this reply rather than requoting it, because as soon as I finished reading it, I saved it to its own document for safekeeping in my "Sims College" folder as "Raeven's BMP_ Resource Tutorial." (I keep all my "hacking studies extras" in that folder, not just actual Sims College lesson exercise materials). But anyway, thank you for writing all that out. It really helps to have this kind of info -- and wow, so this is all mtaman did? --

Quote:
The buymode catalog and action queue and Inventory window use the 2000 series BMP_ if one is available. If it is missing then the game generates one to use by taking a little picture of the actual object. Originally (befor expansuion packs) the game then saved the object with that thumbnail in it. That's what Mtaman is offering to do for you now. He will be stripping the object of thumbnails and running his NoEP version of the game, opening buymode to have the the game make a thumbnail and sending the file back to you. So ... the game CAN run without the thumbnail or he'd crash doing that.


Wow, so all I really need to do, if this happens again to another object I make like this, is keep a base game no EP installation on hand, delete all the BMP_resources from my object, install it in base game and then all will be well with its thumbnails? COOL. I can do that, since I still have my original The Sims CD (sheeesh, though, I already have multiple installations, but they consist of all my EPs laugh).

Just one thing though -- what happens if the objects I'm combining to make a new object have EP requirements? Wouldn't my new object have those same EP requirements, and disappear from the base game? I didn't have the thumbnail problem with the counters I made like I did with the sinks (in Buy Mode or in the catalog, that is: something like that never ends up in a sim's queue), but I made the counters for use with those sinks by swapping the graphics of the Tragic Magic Basket and T.R. Cooper barrel end tables from Makin' Magic to clones of the Numica kitchen counter. The Numica counter is from the base game, but I extracted it from a copy of objects.far in which MM is one of the installed EPs -- so wouldn't my counters require MM?

Thank you all so much everybody for all your help and information. Two bathing tents down, twenty or thirty-something to go. laugh

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtaman wrote:
These arrived .hqx'ed as well, but earlier I had downloaded a trial of Stuffit which was able to expand them. whistle thumbsup

You are quite welcome. biggrin


You should've told me you had Stuffit Expander! Well, then, I guess I can send you zips now after all! I didn't know Stuffit Expander worked with Windoze, though!

I don't know if there's a Windoze version of this program or not, but I can open up zips, .sits (Stuffits) and rars made with either Windoze or Mac with no problems with a program called The Unarchiver (which was free, too). The Unarchiver as I know it is solely Mac OS X, though (can't even use earlier Mac OS's with it) -- dunno if there's a PC equivalent. But all the zips I download from Sim sites (98% made on PCs, I'll guess), as well as the one you sent me today with my fixed sinks, open right up with this thing. Maybe I'll Google and find out if there's a Windoze version you can use.

~Yersinia.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yersinia wrote:
Just one thing though -- what happens if the objects I'm combining to make a new object have EP requirements? Wouldn't my new object have those same EP requirements, and disappear from the base game? I didn't have the thumbnail problem with the counters I made like I did with the sinks (in Buy Mode or in the catalog, that is: something like that never ends up in a sim's queue), but I made the counters for use with those sinks by swapping the graphics of the Tragic Magic Basket and T.R. Cooper barrel end tables from Makin' Magic to clones of the Numica kitchen counter. The Numica counter is from the base game, but I extracted it from a copy of objects.far in which MM is one of the installed EPs -- so wouldn't my counters require MM?

~Yersinia.


What you do is just scroll over the item in the Buy mode catelog. You don't have to actually buy it. The act of highlighting the item as you pass over it seems to create and save the thumbnail.
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mtaman wrote:
What you do is just scroll over the item in the Buy mode catelog. You don't have to actually buy it. The act of highlighting the item as you pass over it seems to create and save the thumbnail.


OK, great. Next time I go off my rocker like this and make something, I'll install just The Sims, "just in case."

Thanks! smile

~Yersinia.

P.S. Uh-oh....I'm in trouble, big trouble! I just said there was going to be a next time! laugh

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